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Gnome-do is mono

Submitted by bdeferme on May 28, 2009 - 12:40

Today,

I learned in this interesting post that gnome-do is an application written in Mono.
I won't elaborate on why I don't like this, there are enough flame wars all around the internet/community for any of you to read.

I'm only going to say: I'm sad. I really really like gnome-do, it's an awesome application and I certainly will keep using it. But if there seems to be an alternative that's not written in Mono. And it's nearly as good, I will switch to the alternative.

But no, I don't think Launchy gets to the gnome-do level, it won't do...

/dev/out sad :-(
#1Submitted by Rohit Arondekar (not verified) on July 25, 2009 - 09:54.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

I realized Gnome-do is mono just a few minutes ago. Made me sad too because I really love the app - it's awesome but ... mono.
#2Submitted by Mono, un danger pour GNU/Linux ? | Informatique (not verified) on July 1, 2009 - 01:20.
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[...] utiliser. J’avoue être un utilisateur inconditionnel de Gnome Do qui si je ne me trompe pas utilise Mono. L’idée de m’en séparer ne m’enchanterais guère je dois bien [...]
#3Submitted by Mono, un danger pour GNU/Linux ? | Philippe.Scoffoni.Net (not verified) on July 1, 2009 - 00:20.
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[...] utiliser. J’avoue être un utilisateur inconditionnel de Gnome Do qui si je ne me trompe pas utilise Mono. L’idée de m’en séparer ne m’enchanterais guère je dois bien [...]
#4Submitted by PieterB (not verified) on May 31, 2009 - 08:05.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Tomboy is also mono. Now it's ported to C - GNote. You should take a look at the source code, It's also possible to port GNOME-DO. No worries. Personally, I've no problem with using C# on Linux, but it's important to use specific Linux / free libraries and not these related to Microsoft. So using ADO.NET, ASP.NET of Windows Forms is out of the question... C# is a rather nice language (AFAIK). MonoDevelop is a good IDE, especially for the new era of devs or windows converts :-) When you need execution speed, there is still C with GLib (and GObject) When a dev needs dev speed, use Python or ... C#. Or bindings for these other languages :-)
#5Submitted by Gert (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:19.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

And god, quit posting anonymously! Grow up!
If it isnt worth attaching your name, your personal data to it.. its probably not worth posting, let alone reading!
#6Submitted by anon (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:34.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Read my post above about providing an alternative. My reasons for posting anonymously is because I do not officially want to get involved in this. My sole reason for responding to all this is because I think you guys could be much more effective if you'd consider a different approach, one that's not based on fear, but on progress.

I wish you all the best of luck, but spreading fear, as history has shown us, never leads one far.
#7Submitted by Dag Wieers (not verified) on May 30, 2009 - 22:12.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

``But for now, don't you guys have the feeling that this whole legal fear is causing fragmentation and work duplication in an otherwise already quite fragile F/OSS ecosystem?''

I am happy you do acknowledge the legal fear and related problems, but what I do not understand is that you don't see that Mono is causing it. In fact, there seems to be no way the Mono project is able to get away with it (because they would have done that already).

Having Mono in this state of limbo (for this long) to me proofs there is a problem that Microsoft does not want fix and that the Mono project is unable to fix. If Microsoft is on Mono's side in this legal uncertainty, they have a poor way of showing it.

PS And I was one of the people that started early on with Mono/C# and I really liked it, but does not see a bright future for it if these concerns are not addressed.

It is hard to build a castle on shallow soil.
#8Submitted by Gert (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 15:57.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

I dont envy you to be in a position where you cant freely out your personal opinions, but I do respect it.

But you once again come upon what irks me about any Mono related comment. There is no FUD in this post. Bert posts that he prefers not to use mono. Its as valid a remark as preferring not to use Windows, or Firefox, or Pidgin, or Tomboy. Or prefering not to eat strawberries. Or chocolate (although people not eating chocolate are misguided and insane) for that matter.
So Why do any time someone posts their preference about a mono related project or mono itself.. comments turn nasty?

And as a side note.. if Mono is so great (im not saying it isnt, im not saying it is..) why does anyone care if some blogger prefers not to use it?? He's just this guy, you know..
#9Submitted by bdeferme on May 28, 2009 - 14:15.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Anyway, it was certainly NOT my intention to start YAFW(yet another flame war) it was nearly a post to get some minor stuff out of my head.

@Anon next time please read the post entirely, and certainly the part:

"I won't elaborate on why I don't like this, there are enough flame wars all around the internet/community for any of you to read."

The only point I wanted to make was: I, personally, don't like that gnome-do is written in mono and when I encounter a good alternative I will make a switch. I didn't say ANYTHING that would provoke flames, yet it did. Guess the mono camp is running around on the tips of their toes for SOME REASON
#10Submitted by anon (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:17.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Please do not spread your opinion if you are not open to discussing it. This is not about starting a flame war. This is about having a mature conversation that comes from both sides. Why should the world listen to your opinion if you are not willing to listen to theirs?
#11Submitted by Guy (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:11.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

@anon Great idea!, lets's first become totally dependent on this technology and that wait until MS pulls the plug on it and we need to rip it out of our desktop with little options other than embracing KDE left. No thanks
#12Submitted by anon (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:08.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

If the ship goes down, we'll just port our stuff (perhaps that's the most important lesson gnote taught us, porting something to another language in a 1:1 fashion doesn't exactly require much troublesolving and skill, just a lot of patience). But for now, don't you guys have the feeling that this whole legal fear is causing fragmentation and work duplication in an otherwise already quite fragile F/OSS ecosystem?
#13Submitted by bdeferme on May 28, 2009 - 14:11.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Again: why wait and enlarge the risk of having to do massive porting work, when we can just eliminate the risk right now?
#14Submitted by anon (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:16.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Because from a technology point of view, there is no good alternative to mono when you want a higher level compiled language. Perhaps that'll be a better use of your energy, Improve Vala so that we actually want to use it. Provide us with an alternative that will cause people to switch away from C#. You know, spread positive energy!
#15Submitted by guest on November 15, 2009 - 15:44.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

This is nonsense. There are plenty of excellent higher-level compiled languages on Linux. People just have to (had to..) start using them and writing libraries for them.
#16Submitted by bdeferme on May 28, 2009 - 14:22.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

There are people working on Vala, it's being done. I'm in no position to "Improve Vala" for numerous reasons. Yet again you tempt me to say the obvious: You read stuff that I didn't type. I never said I dislike Mono technology, I never said I dislike C# technology, I do said I dislike the risk that they bring, but not in the original post, because I didn't want any mono evangelist start another war.

</end of my replies> That's the only way to stop this discussion ;-)
#17Submitted by anon (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 14:31.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Yet technology is the key in this whole story. Remember this guys: mono users don't care about the legal stuff and they will keep adding mono code to places where you don't want to see it. For one simple reason: they want to make software, fun nice software. So if you want to stop mono, give them a good alternative.

And if you do that, I'll support you in your mission. I am in no way affiliated with mono, I just use it for development because it works best. Provide me with a better alternative and I'll use that. In fact, I'll gladly switch away from mono, not because I fear microsoft, but because I don't like depending on an API that's designed out of my control.

That is the whole I'm trying to make here: we don't care about legal stuff, don't bother us with it. Help us write better software. I don't care that you have a problem with mono, I just think the way it's being solved (switch out of fear for lawsuits) is a huge mistake.

This is the same strategy Mozilla takes: they don't say flash is evil. They provide an alternative. And it works much better than the crusade against mono. Think about that for a minute.
#18Submitted by bdeferme on May 28, 2009 - 14:42.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

I get this point. But sadly (as I said before) I'm in no position to put a lot of effort into enhancing Vala. This is because of numerous reasons:

  • my busy job
  • my knowledge (I'm not a developer)
  • ...

If I could, I would.

Secondly, my mission is not to spread around that mono is evil, and I never really did, I might have spread the word that I'm personally not really liking mono, and that I will move away were possible. If my mission were to make mono sound evil I would go around other blogs posting anonymously crap like you are doing :-p, or I would start some site like "www.nomono.org".

Let me satisfy you: I WONT DO ANY OF THAT.
#19Submitted by bdeferme on May 28, 2009 - 13:55.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

@anon:

I get your point, I really do.

BUT, I do not like risks, when I've got the option to move away from these risks. I'm moving away from Mono out of precaution? But really, who cares that one user is moving away.

The bigger picture: Why wait until it is to late? Why wait until gnome depends on mono for half of it's features? What if the sue arrives at exactly that point? That's going to hurt... A friend of mine said it nicely: "You wouldn't remain inside of a sinking ship until the water level is halfway up your nose would you?"

@Gert: Thanks :-)
#20Submitted by Gert (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 13:54.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Another anonymous Mono evangelist??? Please guys, respect the blog you re commenting on by at least telling the people who you are! And I honestly dont see how someone blogging about being sad gnome-do is mono based ranks as FUD. Do you have ANY idea why Bert feels like that? Because after reading his post, I dont.. So I really dont see why his feelings (he's sad..) should be FUD
#21Submitted by anon (not verified) on May 28, 2009 - 13:39.
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Re: Gnome-do is mono

Guys, Let's just forget about this crap and worry about moving away from mono when microsoft actually sues someone? This speculative FUD is getting *really* tiring.